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Mid-Appalachian Region of
the National Speleological Society


February 26, 2000

The meeting was called to order by MAR Chair, Paul Hinnebusch at 1:40 PM at the home of Jay Herbein, Harrisburg, PA.

Secretary's Report:
The minutes of the 1999 meeting were read by MAR secretary Rich Rosevear. A motion to accept the 1999 minutes was made by Bob Gulden and seconded by Doug Medville. A vote was taken and the motion passed.

Treasurer's Report:
The Treasurer's Report was read by treasurer Bette White. Printed copies of the report were distributed. A motion to accept the Treasurer's Report was made by Kim Kehs and seconded by Pat Minnick. A vote was taken and the motion passed.

MAR Breakdown:
Karen Bange reported that she is the new editor of the "Breakdown" and that reports could be emailed or snail mailed to her.

1999 Fall Field Meet:
Hosted by York Grotto, celebrating their 40th anniversary, on the property of George and Karen Bange. There were 170 registrants. Bette White stated that the Nittany Grotto's payment was larger than the York's Grotto. Bette has submitted a qualified correction: "When the York Grotto profits from the Field Meet are resolved, then they will have had the highest account generated from a MAR Field Meet to date. For this we congratulate all the York Grotto members and thank Karen and George Bange for use of their property." Dale Ibberson said that financial matters relating to the event would be brought up under new business.

1999 Spring Field Meet:
Hosted by Commander Cody Caving Club at the Lazy "A" Campground, Martinsburg, West Virginia. Thanks for the success of this meet go to both the Commander Cody and Philly Grottos.

Old Business:

MAR Bulletins:
Wil White reported on the staus of the following bulletins:

    CCLUM (Clinton, Columbia, Lycoming, Union, and Montour counties):
    Keith Christenson will be finished with this project in the fall of 2000.

    Fayette County:
    Jim Kennedy is working with Kim Metzgar on this bulletin and it is halfway completed.

    Huntingdon County:
    More work needed to be done on this bulletin.

    York County:
    Patti Anderson reported that this bulletin is still in progress. A first draft has been completed.

Sinkholes of Pennsylvania:
Jay Herbein reported this publication is available free of charge from the Pennsylvania Geological Survey, P.O. Box 8453, Harrisburg, PA 17105-8453. The publication is ES11 "Sinkholes of Pennsylvania".

Pennsylvania Cave Database:
Keith Wheeland reports no news. Updates are received and entered in the database. Current count of Pennsylvania caves in database is probably the same as last reported.

Pennsylvania Cave Conservancy:
Meeting will follow the MAR business meeting.

Cave Conservation:
No report.

Maitland Cave:
is under contract for sale. $79,900.00 is being asked for the property. Keith Wheeland was contacted for reference.

Spring 2000 MAR:
The Pittsburgh Grotto has stepped in to host the event which will be held the third weekend in May (19-21) at the Little Meadows Lake and Campground, Grantville, Maryland. Registration will begin after 6:00 PM, May 19.

Fall 2000 MAR:
Loyalhanna Grotto tentatively agreed to host this meet. Kim Metzger reported status unknown.

Spring 2001 MAR:
Franklin County Grotto will host. Pat Minnick reported this meet would probably be held at Green Castle Legion in Williamson, PA. The date will be based on the VAR schedule.

Fall 2001 MAR:
Central Jersey Grotto volunteered to host. Status unkown.

COG (NSS-Congress of Grottos):
No report. Carol Tilderman mentioned that the COG website is linked to the NSS website.

MAR Bulletin #20:
Bette White stated that she in not pulling $2.00 of the sale of every MAR Bulletin #20 because the cost of producing this bulletin is not yet paid for.

Craig Hindman pointed out that, according to the minutes of the 1996 MAR business meeting, the money to be donated to MAKC from the sale of Bulletin #20 was to be put into a fund.

Kim Metzger contended that expenses of producing Bulletin #20 did not have to be paid before MAKC received its monies. The $2.00 from the sale of each bulletin should be taken for this donation at the time of every sale.

A motion was made by Craig Hindman to ask the PCC and MAKC to return to the MAR treasury funds misappropriated to them. The motion was seconded by Dusty Gulden.

Discussion ensued and Hazel Medville proposed that all previous motions regarding this matter be rescinded and the MAR would give monies to the conservancies without attachment to the sale of Bulletin #20.

Hazel Medville put this into a motion seconded by Pat Minnick. A vote was taken and the motion passed.

Pennsylvania Game Commission:
Dale Ibberson has been in constant contact with the PGC trying to establish and maintain good relations. He presented the commission with a map of Shofer Cave aiding in this effort.

Indian Cave:
Dean Snyder reported a retraction by the "Bath Home News", Bath, PA taking credit for the map of Indian Cave and giving rightful credit to Bert Ashbrook.

Break -2:55-3:30 PM

Bette White thanked Kim Metzgar for her efforts in selling many copies of Bulletin #20

New Business:

MAR and York Grotto:
MAR and York Grotto faced a financial problem regarding the Fall 1999 MAR meet. The MAR also needs an attendee list from the event.

Dale Ibberson reported because of accounting shortcomings of a previous York Grotto treasurer, the grotto appeared to have no funds. As a result York Grotto held up sending MAR the money from the 1999 Fall Meet. Dale took full responsibility for the matter. York Grotto has sent $600.00 (approximately half of what is owed) to MAR and will forward the balance as soon as Dale notifies the York treasurer of the remainder dues. A list of Fall 1999 MAR attendees has been sent to Keith Wheeland.

George Bange suggested the matter be settled as soon as possible to avoid complicating accounting. To this end, Patti Anderson proposed a York Grotto member meeting to resolve the situation and pay the MAR in full.

Karen Bange mentioned the possibility of a rental problem in regards to a rental tent that was used at Fall 1999 MAR. The tent rental people did an unsatisfactory job and, to date, have not billed the York Grotto for the tent used.

In regard to the problems associated with the MAR Bulletin #20 and the question of whether York Grotto or Nittany Grotto made the most money sponsoring an MAR meet, Kim Metzgar and Dale Ibberson respectfully, mooned, officially and in tandem, the MAR and Bette White.

MAR Meet Finances:
Pat Minnick observed that any profits made from an MAR meet to go to the MAR and any deficits are absorbed by the hosting grotto. He proposed that effective with the Spring 2000 MAR any profits from a MAR meet would not be a mandatory donation to the MAR.

Carol Tiderman suggested that 100% of the MAR meet profits going to the host grotto was a big step and that instead 50% should go to the MAR and 50% would be used at the discretion of the hosting grotto.

Harris Martin questioned the impact of this concept on future finances of the MAR. Kim Kehs and Bette White attested that few if any profits are ever made on MAR meets and Wil White stated that MAR bulletins account for the MAR's resources.

Patti Anderson's request that this policy be made retroactive to the Fall 1999 MAR was denied.

Pat Minnick made the motion that beyond the $5.00 collected for the MAR Breakdown, all profits made from MAR meets be divided 50/50 between the MAR and the hosting grotto. The motion was seconded by Kim Kehs. A vote was taken and the motion was carried to be effective immediately.

Pat Minnick made a motion to allow Pittsburgh Grotto to retain 100% of any profits from the Spring 2000 MAR since they stepped in as host at the last minute and were unaware of the procedure regarding profits.

The Pittsburgh Grotto declined and Pat withdrew the motion.

It was established that all MAR grottos receive the MAR Breakdown and any grotto hosting a meet receives guidelines for the procedure.

MAR Website:
There are several volunteers to build an MAR website. The cost of the site will be $12.00 a year and it will be linked to the NSS site.

Carol Tiderman made a motion to establish a MAR website at $12.00/year. Kim Kehs seconded the motion, a vote was taken and the motion passed.

It was established that the webmaster needs to be a NSS member and will submit the site information to the NSS. Keith Wheeland, Karen Bange, and Carol Tiderman agreed to be advisors to the webmaster.

Cleversburg Sink:
Pat Minnick reported a problem with the keys/lock for the Cleversburg Sink gate. There seem to be different locks and the owner and various grottos now possess several different keys. Pat will follow up on this situation.

PCC Website:
Dave Fricke has established a PCC website linked to the NSS website:
URL:    Karen Bange had a sample of the PCC website and thanked Dave Fricke for his effort on this project.

Copies of the PA Cave laws and landowner liabilities act were available as well as cave protection signs.

The after meeting party would be at Dale Ibberson's.

Bette White has order forms for MAR bulletins.

Dave Fricke made a motion to adjourn seconded by Pat Minnick. A vote was taken and motion passed.

Respectfully submitted,
Richard Rosevear
MAR Recording Secretary

Representatives at the meeting:

  • Baltimore Grotto
  • York Grotto
  • Nittany Grotto
  • Greater Allentown Grotto
  • Franklin County Grotto
  • Philly Grotto
  • Pittsburgh Grotto
  • Commander Cody Caving Club
  • Central New Jersey Grotto
  • Mid Atlantic Karst Conservancy (MAKC)
  • Seven Valleys Grotto
  • DC Grotto

Click "Here" for the February 26, 2000 minutes of the PCC Meeting (Winter) that took place immediately after the MAR Business Meeting.

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